The Australian real money online casino ecosystem operates in a distinct regulatory paradox. While domestic licensing under the Interactive Gambling Act 2001 strictly prohibits operators from setting up digital casino shopfronts on Australian soil, everyday punters face zero legal penalties for spinning reels or playing blackjack at internationally licensed platforms. The result is a vibrant offshore market where hundreds of platforms compete for Australian dollars, ranging from tier-one international operators to predatory fly-by-night operations hiding behind shell corporations.

Navigating this space requires separating marketing hyperbole from verifiable operational metrics. A flashy welcome package promising thousands in matched funds is worthless if the withdrawal ceiling is capped at pocket change or the verification pipeline stalls for three weeks. This comprehensive guide dissects the top 10 real money online casinos accessible to Australian players in 2026, evaluating licensing frameworks, transaction pipelines, game mechanics, and payout reliability.

Every brand profiled below has been tested against real-money deposit runs, identity verification cycles, and withdrawal speed audits. We prioritize platforms offering domestic-friendly banking methods like PayID and Osko alongside established cryptocurrencies, fair return-to-player (RTP) configurations, and transparent promotional terms.

The Australian Online Casino Landscape: Offshore Reality vs Commonwealth Law

To evaluate any Australian online casino properly, you must first understand the legal architecture governing remote gambling. The cornerstone of domestic policy remains the Interactive Gambling Act 2001 (IGA), enforced primarily by the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA). The IGA does not penalize individual Australian citizens for placing bets on offshore websites. Instead, the enforcement arm focuses exclusively on service providers, outlawing the provision of unlicensed interactive gambling services to persons physically present in Australia.

Because ACMA cannot directly prosecute entities registered in jurisdictions such as Curaçao, Anjouan, or Kahnawake, its enforcement relies heavily on domain-level blocking directives issued to local internet service providers. While this cat-and-mouse game results in mirror domains and URL redirects, seasoned players evaluate offshore casinos by looking at sovereign licensing transparency. Legitimate offshore hubs enforce strict Know Your Customer (KYC) procedures, independent random number generator (RNG) verification through testing labs like eCOGRA or iTech Labs, and verifiable segregated balance accounts.

The domestic terrestrial landscape also influences player habits. Australia boasts one of the highest per-capita gambling expenditures globally, driven largely by pub and club poker machines manufactured by domestic powerhouses like Aristocrat Leisure. When transitioning to the digital space, players actively look for mechanics mirroring popular titles like Queen of the Nile or Lightning Link, seeking out modern digital providers such as BGaming, Pragmatic Play, and Nolimit City that provide comparable high-volatility mathematical profiles.

Top 10 Real Money Online Casinos in Australia Ranked

Choosing an online casino requires balancing game variety with cashier efficiency and licensing legitimacy. The ten operators listed below represent the most consistent platforms currently catering to Australian real-money players, each excelling in distinct operational facets.

1. Joe Fortune

Launched specifically with the Australian demographic in mind, Joe Fortune has maintained a formidable reputation across the Tasman for nearly a decade. Operating under a Curaçao eGaming framework, the platform specializes in a curated library that pairs proprietary casual games with heavy-hitting online pokies from providers like Rival, Betsoft, and RTG. Its interface is stripped of unnecessary visual bloat, delivering rapid load times across both mobile web browsers and desktop terminals.

From a financial standpoint, Joe Fortune stands out through its dual-rail banking architecture. Traditional players can fund accounts via local voucher solutions or major debit cards, but the real efficiency lies in its cryptocurrency processing. Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash transactions are processed within hours once identity verification is finalized. The platform does not attempt to dazzle with unrealistic six-figure bonus packages; its promotional structure focuses instead on reasonable rollover multiples and clear-cut cash-drop mechanics.

The user experience leans heavily into local familiarity. Banking prompts display AUD by default, avoiding the hidden currency conversion fees that silently erode bankrolls on less localized offshore sites. While its slot catalog is smaller than aggregate hubs carrying 6,000 titles, the selective curation ensures higher technical uptime and fewer dead game links.

2. Ignition Casino

Ignition Casino holds a dominant market share for one simple reason: it provides one of the few fully integrated, high-traffic online poker networks accessible to Australian players alongside a full-scale casino suite. For punters who enjoy switching seamlessly between high-stakes Texas Hold’em tournaments and video pokies, Ignition remains an industry benchmark. The poker client is accessible via dedicated software or browser clients, running on the prestigious PaiWangLuo network where player liquidity remains buoyant around the clock.

The casino wing features an extensive roster of progressive jackpot pokies, table classics, and live dealer streams hosted by professional live studios. Roulette, European blackjack, and baccarat tables support flexible betting limits, accommodating casual ten-dollar punters and seasoned table strategists alike. Ignition handles financial flows primarily through major cryptocurrencies, allowing players to bypass standard banking clearing friction with rapid settlement times.

Security measures are stringent. Ignition enforces automated transaction surveillance alongside mandatory KYC verification prior to the release of first-tier withdrawals. The site operates on a clean, responsive layout designed to minimize latency, which is essential when juggling multiple cash game tables while simultaneously managing live dealer side bets.

3. Neospin

Neospin caters aggressively to modern slot enthusiasts who prioritize game volume, daily engagement bonuses, and expansive gamification. Managed by an established iGaming group operating dozens of international brands, Neospin features a staggering library surpassing 5,000 unique titles. The lobby brings together modern software pioneers like BGaming, Belatra, Booming Games, and Yggdrasil, ensuring instant access to the latest release mechanics, including Hold and Win formats, Megaways engine games, and high-multiplier bonus buy options.

The hallmark of Neospin is its automated cashback infrastructure. Rather than relying solely on upfront deposit matches burdened by brutal turnover conditions, the casino issues daily cashback tied to net daily deposit totals. This mechanic cushions volatile sessions on high-variance pokies, returning playable or cashable equity directly into the user account. The platform also runs proprietary multi-tiered progressive jackpots that can drop randomly on any qualifying base game spin.

Banking options at Neospin are built to accommodate local Australian payment preferences. PayID and Neosurf deposits settle instantly, while cryptocurrency rails support fast, commission-free cashouts. The platform features an ultra-responsive native web application wrapper that functions flawlessly across modern iOS and Android browsers without consuming device storage.

4. Ricky Casino

Ricky Casino has cemented its presence in the Australian market through a structured, multi-tier welcome framework designed for consistent players rather than one-time bonus hunters. Its interface adopts an accessible, mobile-first design that organizes thousands of pokies, table games, and live gaming options into intuitive filtering categories. Players can isolate games by developer, bonus mechanics, or historical volatility with minimal navigational friction.

The platform relies heavily on modern gaming studios like NetGame, Platipus, and Quickspin, ensuring a broad spread of themes ranging from classic fruit machines to complex narrative video slots with cascading reel engines. Live casino enthusiasts will find fully rendered tables covering European Roulette, Infinite Blackjack, and regional variations like Teen Patti and Sic Bo. Table feeds are transmitted in high definition with low broadcast latency.

Withdrawal processing times at Ricky Casino are generally swift once account verification is complete. The casino supports a combination of local bank transfer routes, international payment gateways, and direct cryptocurrency wallets. Limits on individual cashout tranches are clearly published in the cashier dashboard, preventing arbitrary payout withholding.

5. Skycrown

Skycrown appeals directly to players who demand massive catalog variety and uncompromising cryptocurrency integration. Hosting an astounding library of over 7,000 games, Skycrown functions as a mega-aggregator. It connects players to elite tier-one live dealer platforms, provably fair arcade titles like Plinko and Aviator, and an exhaustive cross-section of global pokie developers. If an innovative slot mechanic hits the global market, Skycrown usually incorporates it into its catalog within days.

The casino sets itself apart through a dedicated non-wagering weekly cashback program tailored specifically for crypto users and live casino players. This design acknowledges that high-volume table players are often alienated by traditional slot-focused wagering requirements. By issuing net loss reimbursements devoid of punitive wagering multiples, Skycrown preserves genuine cash liquidity for its core demographic.

Transaction processing is heavily optimized. Automated payment gateways approve crypto transactions in under fifteen minutes under standard conditions, positioning Skycrown among the fastest paying online casinos catering to the Australian market. Support is available twenty-four hours a day through an integrated ticketing and instant live chat module.

6. Hell Spin

Hell Spin brings an aggressive, high-energy aesthetic to online gambling, backed by a sophisticated technical platform. Despite its fiery theme and visual flair, the casino operates with absolute mechanical precision. The game catalog is rich with modern video pokies featuring complex mathematical variance, including titles with expanding reels, sticky wild mechanics, and massive base-game multipliers designed by forward-thinking studios.

The site excels in hosting ongoing competitive tournaments, affectionately dubbed hall-of-flame races. Players accumulate leaderboard points simply by spinning their favorite pokies at qualifying real-money stakes, competing for shared prize pools consisting of withdrawable cash and high-value free spins. Hell Spin also features an expansive live dealer environment with professional croupiers running round-the-clock roulette, blackjack, and game-show style broadcasts.

Financial clearing options are varied, incorporating PayID, modern e-wallet solutions, credit cards, and major crypto assets. Payout approvals follow a standardized schedule, and the platform provides clear, itemized tracking of pending withdrawal requests directly inside the user profile, eliminating the guessing game common on lower-tier platforms.

7. BitStarz

BitStarz is widely considered the gold standard for hybrid crypto-fiat gaming internationally, maintaining multi-award-winning standing across the broader iGaming industry. While the platform does not process domestic Australian bank transfers directly, it remains a favorite among Australian crypto enthusiasts who demand unrivaled operational security, lightning-fast payouts, and provably fair game options.

The platform boasts an in-house proprietary software branch that creates original games, allowing players to mathematically verify the fairness of every individual round using cryptographic hashes. Beside its original catalog, BitStarz integrates top-tier international developers, hosting thousands of high-RTP slots, progressive jackpots, and immersive live dealer lobbies. The website design is sleek, lightweight, and completely devoid of the clunky, generic templates typical of white-label operations.

BitStarz is renowned for its automated withdrawal pipeline. The average cashout turnaround time is under ten minutes for cryptocurrency transactions, handled entirely without manual administrative delays once basic profile verification is confirmed. The operator also provides dedicated VIP account management for high-turnover punters, including individualized withdrawal ceilings and customized promotional terms.

8. King Billy

King Billy has accumulated numerous international industry awards since its launch, largely on the back of its transparent customer relations and royal-themed gamification structure. Operating under an established international gaming permit, King Billy structures its entire user journey around progressive citizen-to-king status tiers. As players wager real money across pokies and table options, they unlock reduced turnover hurdles, personalized promotional drops, and elevated cashout velocity.

The game library is powered by leading names such as Betsoft, Endorphina, Spinomenal, and Wazdan. Pokie filtering is among the most sophisticated in the business, allowing users to search not only by studio, but also by functional feature such as Megaways, Walking Wilds, or Buy Feature availability. Live table selections provide exceptional depth, accommodating both micro-stakes hobbyists and serious high-limit blackjack strategists.

Banking at King Billy accommodates standard cards, regional digital vouchers, and major crypto tokens. The operator is celebrated for maintaining a balanced approach to promotional wagering: while its bonuses are substantial, the rollover conditions are clearly stipulated without hidden clause tripwires or arbitrary maximum win clauses on standard deposit bonuses.

9. 7Bit Casino

7Bit Casino targets the retro-arcade enthusiast with an electric neon aesthetic inspired by 1980s synthwave style. Beneath the nostalgic exterior lies a robust modern gaming platform tailored to players who appreciate high-frequency micro-promotions, daily cash drops, and an exhaustive selection of classic 3-reel and modern 5-reel pokies. The operator carries a significant portfolio of Bitcoin-optimized games where balances and stakes are tracked directly in micro-units of cryptocurrency.

One of 7Bit’s notable strengths is its low-barrier entry point. The cashier supports small-scale deposits, making it an ideal destination for bankroll-conscious players looking to test games with minimal exposure. The VIP club rewards steady consistency rather than pure whale-tier expenditure, distributing weekly comp points, free spins, and weekend cashback with minimal administrative friction.

Security protocols at 7Bit include end-to-end SSL data encryption, mandatory two-factor authentication (2FA) options for user accounts, and continuous software testing through third-party audits. Payouts are handled swiftly across major cryptocurrency chains, ensuring money reaches player personal wallets without unexpected delays.

10. PlayAmo

PlayAmo is one of the foundational modern multi-currency casinos to establish deep roots in the Australian gaming community. Famous for its lightning-fast interface and massive software directory, PlayAmo operates as a veteran iGaming hub. It aggregates titles from dozens of top-flight digital studios, ensuring that players have instant access to everything from classic low-volatility fruit machines to cutting-edge live dealer environments.

The platform is particularly well-known for its high-roller bonus tiers and ambitious promotional competitions. Frequent slot races run throughout the week, offering substantial prize distribution to the most active players on the platform. The live casino room is equally robust, offering dozens of dedicated blackjack and roulette feeds that accommodate both conservative wagering and high-limit table play.

PlayAmo provides comprehensive cashier support covering credit cards, prepaid vouchers, and multiple digital currencies. Customer service is accessible around the clock through real-time chat, staffed by knowledgeable representatives who understand Australian banking terminology and can rapidly resolve transaction queries.

Comprehensive Comparison: Bonuses, Banking, and Payout Speeds

Evaluating an online casino requires checking its core operational specs. The comparison table below outlines the welcome packages, licensing bases, payment options, and average withdrawal turnaround times across all ten ranked platforms.

Operator Bonus Offer Licensing Authority Payout Speed Minimum Deposit Key Distinguishing Feature
Joe Fortune Welcome bonus up to $5,000 + 30 Free Spins Curaçao 1 to 24 Hours (Crypto) $20 Dedicated Australian payment localization and PayID support
Ignition Casino Combined Poker & Casino Welcome Bonus up to $3,000 Curaçao Under 24 Hours $20 Shared player liquidity poker network alongside full casino
Neospin 100% Match up to $10,000 + 100 Free Spins Curaçao Instant to 24 Hours $30 Daily automated cashback on net deposits and huge slot selection
Ricky Casino Welcome Package up to $7,500 + 550 Free Spins Curaçao 1 to 3 Business Days $20 Graduated 10-tier deposit package for structured bankroll pacing
Skycrown Welcome Package up to $4,000 + 400 Free Spins Curaçao Instant (Crypto) $30 Massive library of 7,000+ games and wager-free live/crypto cashback
Hell Spin Welcome Bonus up to $1,200 + 150 Free Spins Curaçao 1 to 2 Business Days $25 High-frequency competitive pokie tournaments and live dealer races
BitStarz Welcome Package up to $2,000 or 5 BTC + 180 Free Spins Curaçao Average 10 Minutes $20 Industry-leading instant automated crypto payouts and provably fair games
King Billy 100% Match up to $2,500 + 250 Free Spins Curaçao / MGA Instant to 24 Hours $10 Multi-award-winning service with transparent, fair wagering terms
7Bit Casino Welcome Package up to $5,000 or 5 BTC + 100 Free Spins Curaçao Instant to 12 Hours $15 Retro arcade aesthetic, micro-deposit support, and low minimum stakes
PlayAmo Welcome Package up to $1,500 + 150 Free Spins Curaçao 1 to 2 Business Days $25 Pioneer multi-currency hub with massive vendor variety and regular slot races

Australian Banking Ecosystem: PayID, Crypto, and Card Realities

Banking is the single most critical friction point for Australians engaging with real-money offshore casinos. Due to regulatory pressure applied by domestic watchdogs on domestic financial institutions, payment gateways undergo constant attrition. Understanding the mechanics of each payment rail saves players from unnecessary processing delays, conversion penalties, and sudden account freezes.

Over the past three years, PayID has emerged as the gold standard for domestic deposits. Connected directly to the New Payments Platform (NPP) and Osko network, PayID enables instant transfers directly from Australian bank accounts using an email address, mobile number, or alphanumeric identifier. When supported by an offshore casino’s localized payment gateway, PayID deposits reflect in player balances within seconds without exposing primary banking credentials. However, PayID withdrawals are rarely supported in reverse, requiring punters to rely on traditional wire transfers or alternative routes to cash out.

Cryptocurrency has fundamentally reshaped the cashier experience for Australian players. Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH), Tether (USDT), and Litecoin (LTC) operate completely independently of Commonwealth financial intermediaries. Deposits clear as soon as the requisite blockchain network confirmations are logged, while withdrawals bypass the typical multi-day clearing delays of international banking. Crucially, crypto banking completely eliminates the 2.5% to 4% foreign exchange (FX) spread that conventional banks impose when clearing foreign transactions.

Credit and debit card transactions (Visa and Mastercard) remain widely available but come with distinct caveats. Australian commercial banks routinely block card authorizations routed to merchant category codes (MCC 7995) associated with international gambling. Even when transactions clear, local banks may classify them as cash advances, triggering immediate interest charges and transaction levies. Prepaid vouchers like Neosurf provide an excellent intermediate deposit shield, allowing players to purchase fixed-value vouchers with cash or card at retail newsagents or online distributors, completely isolating their main bank accounts from the casino platform.

Pokies Mechanics and High-RTP Game Selection

Online video pokies represent over 80% of all real-money wagers placed by Australian players. Yet, significant mathematical discrepancies separate land-based pub machines from their remote digital counterparts. Brick-and-mortar poker machines in Australian hotels and clubs are legally calibrated to minimum theoretical Return-to-Player (RTP) floors that range between 85% and 90% depending on state regulations in NSW, Victoria, or Queensland. In contrast, online pokies routinely feature baseline RTPs configured between 95% and 97%.

This five to ten percent difference alters long-term expected losses. A game operating at 96% RTP mathematically retains only $4 of every $100 cycled through its paylines, compared to a pub machine retaining $12 to $15. To maximize the longevity of a bankroll, players should seek out titles from international studios that publish their verified math models openly and provide adjustable volatility settings.

Pokie Title Software Developer Theoretical RTP Volatility Level Primary Bonus Mechanism
Blood Suckers NetEnt 98.00% Low Pick-and-Click Vampire Slaying Bonus
Mega Joker NetEnt 99.00% (Supermeter) High Classic Skill-Based Supermeter Mode
1429 Uncharted Seas Thunderkick 98.50% Low Expanding Wilds and Free Spins Engine
Money Train 3 Relax Gaming 96.10% (96.50% Buy) Very High Respin Round with Multiplier Modifiers
Book of 99 Relax Gaming 99.00% High Collection Feature and Expanding Symbols
San Quentin xWays Nolimit City 96.03% Extreme xWays, Split Wilds, and Jumping Wilds
Elvis Frog in Vegas BGaming 96.00% Medium-High Hold and Win Coin Respins + Free Spins
Big Bass Bonanza Pragmatic Play 96.71% Medium-High Fisherman Wild Cash Collection Rounds

Beyond theoretical returns, game volatility determines the variance profile of a session. Low-volatility titles generate high-frequency, smaller payouts ideal for clearing promotional playthrough requirements. Extremely volatile releases, such as Nolimit City’s San Quentin, can burn through hundreds of spins without meaningful payouts before suddenly triggering complex bonus chains capable of reaching multipliers of 150,000x the base stake.

Casino Bonuses Deconstructed: Wagering Math and Fine Print Traps

Promotional marketing in the online casino sphere is frequently misunderstood. A four-digit bonus matched to an initial deposit is not free money; it is a liquidity buffer wrapped in strict legal and mathematical contingencies. To evaluate whether a promotion provides genuine value or acts as a mechanism to lock player deposits, punters must calculate the effective turnover requirement.

Consider a standard promotional structure: a 100% deposit match up to $500 with a 40x wagering requirement. Crucially, players must determine whether the 40x rollover applies exclusively to the bonus funds or to the combined total of the deposit plus bonus (D+B). If the 40x multiplier applies only to the $500 bonus, the total wagering handle required before cashing out is $20,000 ($500 x 40). If the term states 40x (D+B), the required handle doubles to $40,000 (($500 + $500) x 40). Playing through $40,000 on a slot with a 96% RTP yields an expected mathematical loss of $1,600, easily wiping out the original $500 promotional buffer.

Furthermore, promotional terms enforce restrictive operational rules during active bonus wagering:

  • Maximum Bet Limits: Almost all casinos enforce a strict cap on maximum stakes while an active bonus is in play, standardly set at $5.00 AUD or $0.50 per line. Placing a single $5.50 spin can trigger automatic forfeiture of both the bonus balance and any associated winnings upon cashout review.
  • Game Weighting Asymmetry: While video pokies typically contribute 100% of each wager toward turnover requirements, table games like blackjack and roulette often contribute only 5% or are excluded entirely. Wagering $100 on blackjack might only credit $5 toward your playthrough milestone.

Mobile Optimization: Progressive Web Apps vs Native Apps

Due to regional restrictions imposed on the Australian Google Play Store and Apple App Store, real-money offshore casino operators cannot distribute native downloadable applications. When an offshore platform prompts an Australian user to download an application, it is almost exclusively deploying a Progressive Web App (PWA) rather than a compiled iOS or Android executable.

PWAs leverage modern web technologies (HTML5, WebGL, Service Workers) to deliver an app-like experience directly through mobile web browsers like Safari or Chrome. By selecting “Add to Home Screen” on an iPhone or Android handset, the browser caches core graphical assets, eliminates the URL address bar, and creates an independent launch icon on the user’s home screen. This configuration delivers near-native performance, rapid load times, and instantaneous access to modern touchscreen slot interfaces without requiring storage-heavy installations or bypassing device security controls.

Modern touchscreen pokies are engineered from the ground up for vertical, one-handed mobile play. Features such as swipe-to-spin, quick-access thumb menus for coin values, and dynamic resolution scaling ensure smooth performance even on moderate mobile data connections. However, players should exercise caution when playing live dealer table streams on cellular connections, as high-definition video pipelines demand consistent bandwidth to prevent mid-hand connection drops.

Player Safety, Auditing, and Responsible Gambling

Engaging with offshore gambling platforms requires an active commitment to personal safety and bankroll protection. Because international casinos operate outside Australian legal jurisdiction, players do not have recourse through domestic regulatory channels like the Australian Financial Complaints Authority (AFCA) or state consumer protection bodies. Self-reliance and platform auditing are the primary defenses against unfair operational conduct.

Before registering or depositing funds with an offshore operator, run through this practical checklist:

  • Verify Sovereign License Credentials: Always inspect the footer of the casino website for an active license badge issued by jurisdictions like the Curaçao Gaming Control Board, Kahnawake Gaming Commission, or the Government of Anjouan. Click the validation seal to verify that the digital certificate is currently valid rather than a static graphical forgery.
  • Confirm Independent RNG Certification: Look for audit stamps from independent technical testing laboratories such as eCOGRA, iTech Labs, BMM Testlabs, or Gaming Laboratories International (GLI). These organizations independently verify that the random number generation models behind the games are genuinely unbiased and tamper-proof.

Responsible bankroll management is the single most important factor in sustaining healthy gambling habits. Every reputable operator provides self-service player protection tools built directly into the account profile settings. These include daily, weekly, and monthly deposit caps, session timer alerts, reality check pop-ups, and cool-off cooling periods. If you ever feel that your gambling habits are slipping out of control, Australia provides extensive, confidential domestic support infrastructure, including the National Gambling Helpline (1800 858 858) and independent counseling services available 24/7 at Gambling Help Online.

Is it legal for Australians to play at online casinos for real money?

Yes, individual Australian players can legally play at online casinos for real money. The Interactive Gambling Act 2001 penalizes operators that offer unlicensed gambling services within Australia, not the individuals who access offshore platforms. Players face no domestic legal penalties for placing real money bets on international websites.

How do I make fast deposits and withdrawals from Australia?

Cryptocurrency (Bitcoin, Litecoin, USDT) provides the fastest deposits and withdrawals, often settling within minutes. For fiat currency deposits, PayID and Neosurf offer instant funding, though withdrawals generally require traditional international bank transfers, which typically take between two and five business days to clear.

Do I have to pay tax on my online casino winnings in Australia?

No, the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) does not tax gambling winnings. In Australia, gambling is legally classified as a hobby and an outcome of good luck rather than an income-producing profession, meaning every dollar won from online casino play is completely tax-free for individual citizens.

What is the standard minimum deposit at Australian-friendly casinos?

Most reputable Australian-friendly online casinos enforce a standard minimum deposit threshold ranging between $15 and $30 AUD. However, select platforms supporting alternative crypto payment channels or regional digital vouchers allow micro-deposits starting as low as $10, accommodating casual, low-stakes players comfortably.

Are online pokies fair and truly random?

Online pokies hosted by licensed international casinos are fair, provided they run on genuine certified software. Legitimate developers use cryptographic Random Number Generators (RNG) evaluated by independent auditing agencies like eCOGRA and iTech Labs to ensure that every spin outcome is mathematically independent, unpredictable, and completely fair.